Projo 7 to 7 News Blog

How about having your states and hometowns legalize indoor prostitution first, and then tell the rest of us how wonderful it is to have these businesses in your neighborhood! Give me a break. Rhode Island needs to join the civilized world, not lead it's decline!

It is not any surprise that a letter would be written to this extent from URI and associated U's from around the country.
During an interview at Yale some years back[while a Professor was being arrigned for rape/murder], I over heard a conversation between two elite staff members who found it strange that todays parents do not understand that all college students should have their first sexual experiance with college teachers/staff. Nor should it surprise me because the percentage of rape ar URI goes up each year, and they do not report it unless one envokes the Cleary Act. Our daughter's womans- study teacher at URI made a comment after our daughter was raped in her Honors Dorm room- her comment to our daughter: "oh grow up who has'nt been raped these days".
I see that distance learnng should be the way to achieve a degree these days because it seems that todays university staff seems to be gaining employment with no regard to moral code nor values....funny we even got URI a 15 million dollar grant just to educate their staff...perhaps they used it for indoor activities-

Hmmm! Could there be a college professor covention coming up in convention center soon?

Wow, am I confused. There are the questions of a. is it or isn't "bad"; b. Should we or shouldn't we be considering legalization; c. Is this a morality issue or not; and many more.

Let's get Obama involved and really muddy the waters. I guess that achademics like happy endings too.

Barbara, the majority of the western, developed, civilized world has laws that are like Rhode Island's, where all the 'bad stuff' we associate with prostitution (street-walking, pimping, trafficking, etc. are illegal), but the actual act itself isn't.

If the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and most of the rest of Europe aren't in the civilized world, I don't know who is.

If anything, we should be an example to the rest of the country that the uptake of the anti-prostitution laws pushed by the same folks who brought us the prohibition of alcohol in the twenties has been a failure. The proof is in Donna Hughes' own work: most prostitution where prostitution is illegal is a terrible, awful, dangerous, abusive thing that offers nothing to society, and prostitution where it -is- legal is a much-less bad thing that makes some women wealthy, occupies otherwise vacant commercial space, pays taxes, and increases demand on the entertainment and hospitality industries.

Also, Barbara Owen... I do live in a very poor neighborhood near two bars and two Asian spas. The bars are a nuisance, the spas are very good neighbors, and I've never seen a prostitute out on the street.

Why don't you move to a neighborhood where 30% of the population lives under the poverty line and tell me if you'd prefer your prostitutes paying rent, keeping it private, and closing at 1am or out on your street at all hours, bringing drugs, pimps, and crime to your doorstep.

This is an opportunity for the state to do the right thing. I agree with keeping it legal, however that will be disaster if you end there. You need to regulate it. Limit legalized prostitution to "clean" brothels where you have the prostitutes (male or female) e-verified, tested weekly for drug use and STDs, and mandate the use of sexual protection (like they do in Nevada). Having brothels would allow for easier oversight as well as the potential to create red light districts as dictated by the tax payers rather than have prostitutes set up shop willy-nilly. Having prostitution set up this way should drastically curb human trafficking. Think about it, if you are a potential John, would you rather go to state-sanctioned brothel where you know you aren't going to be harassed by police and where you know the women are legal, of age, and likely to be disease free; or would you rather go to the basement of some dank massage parlor not knowing if the prostitutes are trafficked and diseased while also being concerned that somebody might steal your wallet or that some guy is going to hit you upside the head with a pipe? With legal regulated prostitution open and available, the demand for the seedy unregulated prostitution will diminish significantly or almost entirely. In conclusion, we need to: 1. Legalize. 2. REGULATE. 3. TAX. Without step 2 and 3 it doesn't make any sense. If you keep it the way it is, it will only encourage trafficking.

Finally! Someone says something smart about this debate. Don't let these looney conservative clowns dictate our lives!

This is exciting to watch. Infighting between feminists. First we have the extreme feminists that equate all heterosexual sex to rape and want prostitution made illegal. Then we have sex positive feminists who thinks if you are not getting paid for sex you are getting ripped off. I think we should let them fight it out on the state house lawn, maybe in a mud wrestling match!

just because it is legal does not mean the state protects the workers inside the buildings. they are still just as likely to be raped and contract diseases. and these women do not think they provide a valuable service. many of them are here against their will and have been trafficked here or in some way forced into this life. shame on professors for being so stupid. this isnt nevada. go check out one of rhode island's famous spa's and tell me if you think its such a great service.

Barbara,
Several of the letter signers are from Nevada, which has legal brothels in 10 counties. And a couple are from countries with legal, regulated prostitution.

Prostitution isn't a 'trade', it's a degrading, debasing mental aberration that promotes loathing of the opposite sex.

I don't want a whorehouse on my street, in my city, or in my state. I don't want my wife, mother, aunt, sister, or daughter to be a whore. I don't want my father, uncle, brother, or son to visit a whore. I don't want to sit at a restaurant where whores and johns congregate.

I don't want to promote prostitution, not even in somebody else's back yard, and I certainly don't want to read idiotic comments from out-of-state whoremongers.

Funny, these are the same people who think everyone should have a "degree."
I never realized that you needed a "degree" in Psychology, Sociology or "Political Science" to be a waiter or waitress or to work at Starbucks.
And these colleges and unis want more and more of our Taxdollars for....research.
"Hey! You with the master's degree, two lattes no sugar and make it snappy!"
Evidently colleges, unis and lawyers have never heard of, "the law of supply and demand."
I have no problem with indoor prostitution between *consenting adults* I just don't see the "need" for college and uni professors weighing in on the issue.
These are the kind of people who The Three Stooges used to throw pies at.

50 professors what do they do teach sleaze?hookers and customers off to the aci.our ga needs to be replaced by people who care

Only in RI. That anyone could actually dream up a DEFENSE of indoor prostitution is absolutely telling of the complete lack of morality and intelligence in this state. Thanks to all of those elitist academics...for imparting their brilliant logic upon us. What next, let drugs be legal-if handled indoors? Murder? Underage drinking? Bookmaking? Wake up idiots. These are young girls being exploited for profit.

Well, Rhode Island can be the universal leader. Wow, what a title. I wonder how many of those writing these comments and those professors are guys who are or have intentions of paying someone to do something they themselves wouldnt dream of doing. How would you feel if it was your daughter, wife or maybe mother or aunt? I mean, because someone has money and someone does not, should that person have to resort to letting some low life use their body for this other "persons" pleasure?
And by the way, for those who are married, I bet you didnt tell your wife that you are pro-prostitution and have written letters in support of it. I really think that only perverts,sexual deviants and the socially inept who couldnt get a girl on their own would be the only ones who would champion this cause. Oh, and by the way, for those thinking that a female wrote this,your wrong. Just a normal male.

You're all puritans. Probably obese, pasty, and live under a rock somewhere in Coventry.

TRAVEL SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN TO THE WARWICK MALL.

You're more freakish than the spa owners.

Don't go if you don't like a massage or your feet rubbed.

On a more conventional note:

The state should legalize and enforce restrictions, tax the parlors and screen the workers for health and safety. Period. Otherwise another opportunity lost in the State of Rouges Island.

Lets ban Barbara Owen!

The article seems logical and makes perfect sense to me. I don't understand why everyone denies the obvious, but then again, this is Rhode Island, where ignorant people just keep on electing the most inept, stupid and corrupt politicians in the entire country.

People, I have news for you all. Prostitution has been around for a VERY long time. One more law isn't gonna change anything. People still want to get their jollies off, whether it's "legal" or not.

People. Calm down.

The issue is not whether you think prostitution is a good thing, and it's especially not an issue of what you want your wives and daughters to be doing.

If prostitution going to happen (which it is, regardless of whether you personally think that's okay or not), wouldn't you rather the workers--maybe even your wives and daughters!--were safer, more secure, and less liable to rape and violence?

Anyone reading several articles in the Providence Journal over the last couple of months would come to the conclusion that prostitution in Providence is rampant, having overflowed "Portland and Pine" which was so well known in my younger days. Craigslist and other cheapie classifieds have no doubt enabled the prostitutes to "take it inside".

Since many people seem to think that indoor prostitution is no big deal, would you mind posting here or on some other public web site the exact location of today's brothels and whorehouses? Some of us would like to take some photos.

Indoor prostitution is definitely safer. Everyone I know hire escorts via Naughty Reviews exclusively.

Come out of the 18th century, Rhode Islanders. It's 2009 and adults should be able to legally trade sex for $.

I'm constantly amazed how backwards RI is. It's like living 100 years in the past.

tHE PROFESSORS WHO WANT TO KEEP IT WANT
ALSO TO TRAVEL HERE FOR THEIR IMMORAL
ACTION.

RHODE ISLAND DOESN'T NEED TO BRAG THAT
WE ARE AN IMMORAL STATE FOR ALL THE
PROSTITUTION AND GAMBLING AND DRUG ACTIVITY.

THE HAIRDRESSER HAS A LISCENSE, THE BARBER
HAS A LISCENSE. THE PROSTITUTE DOESN'T EVEN
HAVE TO HAVE A PHYSICAL ORA LISCENSE.

J

The misconceptions of academics expressed above are laughable. We are not sleeping with your adult children. We are not attending "professor conferences," whatever those are, in Rhode Island.

If you want Rhode Island to be civilized, don't ban indoor prostitution. Prostitution isn't going to go away, no matter how much you might wish.

Think of the women involved. Do you want dead women on your hands? You'll kill them if you make indoor prostitution illegal and force them to depend on pimps for protection. Now they can at least go to the police. Save your morality and use your common sense.

And, while you're at it, stop by a local university. You'll find that the professors are thoughtful professionals, not the crazy cartoon characters you imagine. You don't have to believe us just because we conduct research or have more education than most people in the world. But unless you're doing independent research on your own, you might want to at least hear us out. We're just one voice; we're not forcing ourselves on you. Calm down.

Why should only people in relationships have access to sex? Doesn't the creepy guy who no sensible woman would touch with a ten-foot pole deserve to have sex? What about that 50-year-old guy working at McDonald's, living with his mother, and taking care of her cats? Does he not deserve sex? These people exist. I'm related to such people and so are you. (Rhode Island is small, I know you are related to these guys.) The women at these spas provide a valuable service. Just knowing how much creepier my cousin would be without their services makes me eternally grateful that they do what no woman I know would ever want to do.

I love the comments about these professors not being from RI. People should never seek an experts advice, especially if it is out of the 401 area code.
Just like I told my mother when she had a lump on her breast, don't get a second opinion at a bigger, better, fancier hospital. Lets go with that first opinion because this doctor is local.

All prostitution should be illegal. You think these indoors hookers have less STD's because they are indoors? You are wrong, most of the hookers drive to RI from Boston.

One question, what about if a hooker hangs out in Burger King and solicits people for sex while standing in line to get their food. Is this legal? Where are the lines, where is the standard STD testing like Las Vegas, whay can't you advertise for sex? It is because it is illegal and should stay that way.

Maybe its that Prof. Gates idiot spearheading this new brain child of his. If they make prostitution illegal the courts are racist he'll say.

how many times must you be told that you can't legislate morality ?

Perhaps we should rename this "50 Non-Prostitutes Urge Poor Women to Continue Debasing Themselves"

Anything that begins with "50 Academics urge..." may as well just say, "please ignore the following." Regular people don't care what a bunch of detached Ivy League theoreticians or more likely, potential Johns, think about virtually anything.

Why can't Rhode Island just be a like the other 49 states for once, and not Thailand? This isn't just about prostitution or prostitutes, it's about all the other garbage the comes along with it.

Folks, There is a practical reason for keeping indoor prostitution legal in this state - there are no other jobs to be had. I think it would be a great way for me to pay down the mortgage on my now under-valued suburban house! I've got a few rooms on the ground floor that I could rent out..I could put up some free ads on Craigslist and... Voila! Open my own house of ill-repute.

Hmmm...I wonder if I can get the neighbor's kid to sell my customers some drugs....

Mangeek, You are right to contrast bars with sexually-oriented establishments. Some excellent research comparing bars and strip clubs found that crimes were much more common near bars than near strip clubs, largely because the strip clubs have greater security measures, including surveillance and bouncers on the premises. So, the mere existence of a sexually oriented establishment does not necessarily, as Barbara Owen thinks, have negative effects on the surrounding community.

So, Architect, if 50 academics who teach in medical schools recommended something, you'd say just "ignore" them? You say that "regular people" don't care what academic research shows. What is your evidence for that? Also, you seem to think that the 50 letter signers were from the Ivy League and, worse, are "potential johns." That is totally offensive. (At least half of the signers are women.) When you can't argue against a policy with thoughtful, reasoned logic, you try to impugn the academics' character!!

As a co-author of the letter reported in this story I would like to respond to the notion that you have to be from Rhode Island to have an opinion on this. Of course the legislation in question does not immediately affect my neighborhood. All the same, I care deeply about the safety of workers no matter where they are working. Criminalizing prostitution makes it harder, not easier, to protect people who exchange sexual services for money.

If we care about the safety of sex workers we need to act based on reason and evidence rather than in the throes of panic. I understand that the working conditions in some spas might be terrible while in others the conditions might be fine. I would certainly support the notion that all spas should follow worker safety guidelines and labor laws. Forced labor and unsafe working conditions are not acceptable in any industry. Addressing those problems is not achieved by criminalizing the industry but rather by enforcing and strengthening existing laws that protect workers.

To address the concerns of neighbors of brothels or spas, a better approach than criminalization is to form collaborative community efforts that address the needs of workers and residents.

Icarus is dead right - you cannot legislate morality no matter how hard you try. In a democracy, the legislature (laws) exists to protect people from harm resulting from the direct actions of others, to regulate commerce / professions / education / etc (again to protect the citizen from dangerous and unfair practices and to create a common ground) and to provide a framework for disputes between citizens. No law is ever going to force somebody to believe something, it will only provide a framework for punishment. Even in a Theocracy, where they DO legislate morality, the laws still can't make anyone truly believe anything - the punishments are just more severe. You can see modern Theocracy at work in countries with Sharia Law (Islamic Law), how well do you think that is working out for the average citizen? Bottom line - laws should not attempt to control behavior that is personal to the citizen(s) involved, is consensual and does not harm other people or society at large.

The last point there is really the debate.. does the current law promote activity that is harmful to society at large? Non Loser's argument that such a law would encourage our 'wives, daughters and aunts' to engage in prostitution as well as his statement that men wouldn't openly admit to supporting this law, is fearmongering and a non-argument. If his, or my or anyone's female relatives or friends decided to participate in this type of commerce it would be just that, their decision. If it is NOT their decision, that THAT should be regulated and they should have legal recourse to escape that situation. Intolerance is the core of Non Loser's argument as well as several others who resort to derogatory terms such as 'whore' and 'hooker'.

These people obviously do not see the person who is participating, sometimes by choice sometimes not, in this type of activity. Instead they hide behind their 'morality' and denigrate them, not satisfied to simply have their beliefs and uphold them they try to force their view of 'morality' on everyone else. Instead we should be looking at the people involved: are the workers safe?, is this activity and the laws surrounding it promoting other harmful or criminal acts?, is this activity safe for those who choose to participate / purchase?, is it being taxed properly? (to support regulation and promote honest businesses).

Our bodies are the one asset we are born with, everyone has it to use to survive. We honor and promote Athletes, Models, Actors, Dancers, Singers and other Performers and others who essentially use their bodies to perform a service. Sex is a part of all of these professions, it is just unstated / subtle. However, because of the sex in prostitution is overt it is vilified.

Are women really outraged because they feel that others are being forced to do this, or are they afraid their man may choose to purchase another woman's services? The former can be addressed with strong anti-pimping and anti-coercion laws, the latter is a relationship and trust issue unique to your situation - don't force it on society. Are men simply trying to protect their daughters and the 'American Family', or are they terrified at the power that sex gives women and/or that they may need to accept that their daughters (and wives) are sexual beings? Men can address the former through being honest and open with their family about their beliefs, teaching them what they feel is important and by being available emotionally - without judgement. However, they are still at risk of having to accept their family's ultimate behavior, the only way to properly deal with that is tolerance and love.

If you really think that women should be able to find a better job than prostitution, then have a rally to get the legislature to promote RI business! Give the young women other choices to make money, real money, and give the businesses who own the massage parlors other opportunities. Our lawmakers waste their time with this while our state has record deficits and unemployment.

RI has had decades of legal indoor prostitution, and has spent billions less than neighboring states prosecuting consenting adults for doing adult things with other consenting adults. Where is the violent crime, trafficking and rampant spread of infections predicted by prohibitionists in RI?

In other states a prostitute who has knowledge of a crime such as assault or trafficking is unlikely to step forward as a witness for fear of prosecution or persecution. He or she is unlikely to to be treated as a victim in case of rape, robbery or assault even if they do come forward. Murders of victims thought to be prostitutes are not investigated with rigor in some municipalities because the prevailing attitude on the force is that it's not as important to find that killer as a killer of a more mainstream worker.

If you want to tie up police services, courts and jails, if you want less reporting of violent crime while crime increases, if you want to lower tax revenue while raising state and county expenses then by all means RI could join 48 other "civilized" states and pull sex workers and their clients into an already overloaded judicial system.

Or simply observe the existing situation and determine what can be done to improve working conditions for those adult taxpayers who have chosen sex work as their occupation.

Casey,

The state doesn't protect you in your home or office, it prosecutes violent crimes after you report those crimes. That it's currently legal allows victims of crimes to report those crimes, with security tapes to help identify criminals, convictions are more likely.

More to your point women working indoors are much less likely to be raped or assaulted than less safe street based sex workers.

If you have different information than sex workers themselves have about what they think you might consider the reliability of your source.

Federal law prohibits trafficking and there are already state laws prohibiting coercion. If you encounter a trafficked individual please provide that person a safe haven and bring them to FBI offices as they are better able to deal with kidnapping victims than you are.

I say keep it legal.

Also, why do republicans "want" little government when it comes to guns and taxes, but talk about drugs or sex and the republicans want to be all up in your business. I grew up republican but finally gave up on their assinine politics.

Those who are against prostitution need to work on science to develop gene therapy to change human genetics. That is your only hope to ever get rid of prostitution. People dig sex. Those that can't get it for free for whatever reason are going to pay for it.

Has anyone stop to think (or commemt) that everyday women, dispite there feelings on prostitution, trade sex for goods/money every day? What did our mothers tell us? That it was ok to go on a date when you are getting a free dinner? And our friends in high school and college? Most had en expectation of sex by the 3rd date. Prostitution isnt worst then having a one night stand w/ someone you pick up at a bar. Most likely they were buying you drinks all night, then does that mean you traded sex for those drinks?
And what about perfectly heathly, whore-hating women out there who go after the rich man, the rich man who buys them all kinds of stuff and gets sex in return? Hell I give my husband a favor or a wild ride whenever he does something really good like spoil me rotten or clean the house, am I a prostitute?
It really isnt a matter on whether you like it or not, we have all in some form treated sex as a weapon, a gift, or as reinforcement for good behavior. Anyways prostitution is one of the oldest profections, most everyone enjoys sex and pleasure, why not market on it. You dont have to be the one doing it, just mind your own business and let the ones who want too do it just live there lives!
I am going to move to london so I dont have to live in this backwords, stuffy, stuck up country anymore! hahaha.

If we pass a few more laws and continue attempting to enforce them, I think prostitution can be eliminated in just a few more centuries.

Then back to the War on Drugs.

Enough already! I do not want a brothel, spa, or whatever name you want to call it in my neighborhood. Prostitution promotes trafficing, drugs, guns, pedophelia....only to name a few. In today's society where "anything goes" how can you teach your children morales and values while condoning sexual trades. Do you want to raise your daughters to be hookers? If that's the case then why not legalize drugs, assault weapons, robbery, and any other crime because it creates revenue for the state. If we legaliZe crime we can save money by eliminating police, prisons, troupers, etc.......get my drift! Keep the sexual deviants out of Rhode Island....we have enough problems as it is.

I can't help but wonder if the recent worldwide concentration on prostitution is just another attempt
to raid civil liberties around the globe. Like the word TERRORISM, the word PROSTITUTION makes
people stop thinking and jump on yet another band wagon only this one being more domestic.
Rather than
some far off Muslim extreamist, any man with a sex drive can now be a possible perp.

If anyone thinks prostitution should be legal it would follow that they would approve of their mother, sister, wife and daughter to engage this legal activity. Not only that, they probably would patronize them to help with their income. ''Thanks honey, where did you learn that technique? I've got to go now, there is a line of guys out there waiting for you. Oh, by the way, what time will you get home tonight?''